This week's episode is with founders of the Step Up Club, Alice Olins and Phanella Mayall Fine. The Step Up Club is a modern voice in the women's career conversation, in fact, Stylist Magazine said "it's the only voice to listen to in the women's career sphere".

In this wide-ranging conversation, we chat about everything from their career stories, working mum guilt, career crossroads, confidence and validation. So if you're working and it isn't working or you want to be working - then this episode is for you. Enjoy.

PS. Alice and Phanella have just launched an amazing online version of their in-person Step Up School and are offering Motherkind listeners 15% off. Just use the code SUSMOTHERKIND at
Instagram: @thestepupclub